Interview with CL
We all take a unique journey to find what ultimately makes us happy. Limiting that thought to merely audio now… CL took that journey from HiFi to home theatre and then back again. Interview by Tom Waters of the Sydney Audio Club…
This interview by Tom Waters was originally published in Sound Travels (reprinted with permission of Future Media).
Tom Waters: Do you have a first memory, a first unforgettable musical experience that left an impression?
CL: My first impression was when my oldest brother bought a system comprised of Altec Lansing speakers (I can’t remember which model) and separate Sony components, which he’d setup in the family lounge room. He played lots of music I like, which was 70’s type music. I was gobsmacked at the difference between his system and my parent’s old system. The second instance was when I was at university. I visited my flatmate’s parent’s home somewhere down in Ulladulla. I wasn’t into HiFi then (more the music back then). His dad had a separate music room, and I was gobsmacked (again!) with what I heard. I knew it must have been expensive because his dad seemed a bit nervous that we were in ‘his’ room. And he locked the door afterwards!
TW: And did that start you on the hi-fi journey or did something else start you on the audio equipment quest?
CL: I bought my first system when I was 21. I’d asked my parents for money for my 21st birthday. I had only a little bit of money to spend, so I had to spend wisely. I went around to a lot of shops and eventually bought a pair of Heco Interior Plus 505 floorstanders. They aren’t well known here, it’s a German brand. I also bought a 40 watt Onkyo receiver and an Onkyo CD player. Back then Onkyo was less expensive than today because its reputation wasn’t as established. Then again, it isn’t expensive today either compared to some gear out there! That was my first proper system which I kept for many years. I got side-tracked with work and other stuff, so the system didn’t evolve too much.
After about 15 years I got into home theatre. So I ditched my Onkyo CD player and bought this multi-channel Marantz player, which was a backwards step (for stereo) but I didn’t really realize it at the time. I had Paradigm Studio 60 front speakers then because one of my old Heco speakers stopped working. I also had Paradigm Studio 20’s for rears and a Paradigm centre speaker. I played music through the system too, which wasn’t really very good because it was geared more for home theatre. I knew there was something wrong with the sound, but I didn’t fuss about it too much.
Then in 2012 I noticed this ad for a HiFi show in Sydney. I went there and was totally blown away at how much better these systems sounded than mine! It was a bit overwhelming actually, to tell you the truth. I was surprized by the quality of sound, the many different brands...and the prices! As a result, I bought a new three-channel valve integrated amp by Consonance. That alone made such a difference in my system that I bought a new pair of floorstanding speakers by Osborn and a Consonance integrated valve amp, primarily for music not home theatre. The three-channel amp was then relegated to home theatre channels. Although the sound was great, the bass was a bit soft and the valves made my room too hot in the summer. So I bought a separate Modwright amp which I ran in summer and the Consonance in winter! The Modwright amp exposed me to better bass, which I certainly liked. Along the way I also bought a First Watt J2 which got me intrigued in Pass Labs and Nelson Pass designs. I read reviews on his amps and people said they had a bit of a valve sound, so I upgraded to the Pass Labs separates I have today.
I then heard the Hulgich Ella speakers at a Sydney Audio Club meeting [great club he says but the President is a bugger! Hah!]. I loved them and bought a pair. Still happy…!
TW: Where do you think your system is going, or has it arrived?
CL: At the moment I’m very happy. The last upgrade was the Antipodes music server gear – that lifted my system hugely yet again. The effect of a good digital front-end is quite amazing. I find that I tend to now play complete albums rather than flick from track to track. I think it’s because I don’t experience so much brightness with the Antipodes, so I’m encouraged to keep listening to the album. It’s more analogue sounding; it leans a bit to the warm side which I much prefer. But unfortunately, my system will likely never “arrive”! In this hobby it’s easy to hear something different and confuse it for something better. I’m getting much better at differentiating now!
TW: What’s your favourite piece of equipment at the moment, something that you wouldn’t sell?
CL: I wouldn’t sell my Pass Labs XA30.8 amplifier and XP20 preamp. Going from the valve gear to the Pass Labs gear was a revelation in terms of background silence! Every little bit matters, reducing noise incrementally makes a huge difference.
TW: What would be your second most favourite piece of equipment..?
CL: Definitely the Hulgich Ella speakers, I love the speakers. They allow that perfect balance that I’ve been looking for.
TW: What do you see as your next hi-fi purchase or upgrade?
CL: Likely cables, or maybe a DAC. I’ve spent a fair bit of money lately on the Antipodes so I’m trying to resist spending more for a while. I’ve spent a bit on power cables lately – only $600 for Shunyata NR cords. [CL then laughs saying $600 is virtually nothing in the HiFi world!] I’m waiting for them, they are on order. I recently replaced the basic ethernet cable that came with the Antipodes components with an AudioQuest Vodka ethernet cable and that made a noticeable improvement. Some people try to deny these things make a difference – they only have to try them with unbiased ears to be convinced!
TW: What’s the most memorable pair of speakers (or system as a whole) you’ve ever heard?
CL: I heard these omnidirectional speakers at a recent show in Melbourne; I think they were the German Physiks Borderland MKIV speakers. They were in a small room and I thought … these can’t sound good. The source was an original tape of an early Miles Davis album. And the sound was phenomenal. Another memorable instance was at the Lifestyle Store in Sydney – they were powering the new PMC fenestria speakers with McIntosh gear.
TW: Is there any component you’ve owned and sold that you now regret selling?
CL: I only regret selling the First Watt J2. I had an emotional attachment to it because of the way it sounded. I kept it for a while but I never used it, so I thought it should go. I think if you’re not using something, it’s best to just sell it. It just depreciates more the longer it sits around.
TW: Do you use the same music for comparing components as you do for listening pleasure?
CL: Yes, except for maybe the heavy metal. Metal is great for hearing the impact and power a component is capable of producing, but I don’t listen to it much for pleasure.
TW: What genre of music do you listen to mostly and who are some of your favourite artists?
CL: I think my favourite genre is still rock music - I like artists like R.E.M. and Pearl Jam, I even have a little Metallica but I don’t listen to it much. I still listen to a lot of 70’s music. Lately I’ve listening to more folk music, artists like Angus and Julia Stone. And more jazz, artists like Donald Byrd from back in the 50’s and 60’s. I’ve always listened to a bit of blues but lately I’ve been appreciating John Lee Hooker – there’s something about his voice and rhythmic pounding repetition. I think as your system gets better you’re then open to more varied types of music – it allows you to hear into the music better. You get a better appreciation of the music, and you can more easily hear the recording quality too.
TW: What would be your ‘desert island’ music albums if you could only choose, say, three works?
CL: It’d be hard to pick three specific albums. I would definitely pick three genres. One would be rock. For jazz, I’d probably pick a Donald Byrd album, maybe Ethiopian Nights, and for folk I’d probably pick an Angus and Julia Stone album.
TW: How would you describe the sound you’re getting from your current system?
CL: Well balanced, slightly on the warm side, enjoyable, non-fatiguing. But still there is a good level of detail, without being “crisp” or hard sounding (that can irritate me a bit). I find my system to be relaxing. I’m really happy with my system at the moment. With all the money I’ve spent, I certainly better be happy with it!
TW: In what way does music affect your life, your emotions and the way you feel?
CL: I find music is quite relaxing. After a stressful day at work, I’ll often play music. Often jazz or folk… something softer than rock so I can relax. Sometimes I’ll take a break from music for a couple of weeks, like when I travel. I have portable music then, but it’s not good fidelity music. I find I really miss that. I then look forward to getting home. And as I get older, I find I’m more interested in the background stories of the music and the musicians. I think that’s why I like John Lee Hooker – his music is often like a story.
TW: Where do you see the high-end audio industry going in the future?
CL: It’s not disappearing, it’s still here. I think it’ll survive – there will likely be more rationalizing of brands. People that can afford the expensive audio equipment will still buy the high-end equipment, they might not necessarily be interested in the sound quality – some buy it because they believe it’s good. The older generations like us were exposed to our parent’s system at home – back then today’s portable technology didn’t exist. So, many of us were exposed to HiFi by default. That isn’t so prevalent today. But hopefully, the younger generations that are into ear buds and headphones (and headphones across all price ranges are a huge market right now) will eventually buy real HiFi gear like better speakers and amps. Then again, some will probably just buy better headphones..!
Vinyl appears to be re-invigorating the younger people, even though the manufacturing quality of much of it is poor. But turntables lead to larger less portable gear which in turn may lead to phono stages, power amplification, etc.
TW: Where would you like the audio industry to go or to evolve to?
CL: I think the trickle down from the uber expensive gear to the more affordable gear is already largely happening. Development costs of new components can be huge, so I can’t fault the designers and manufacturers with their trickle down efforts – I think they’re doing a great job there.
I think that digital has advanced to such a degree now, and so quickly, that many people are in denial that it is so good. Many people still hold-out that vinyl reigns supreme and is untouchable. I don’t think that is true at all – sure it’s different but it isn’t better. There needs to be recognition of that.
Lastly, I still like owning things so I wouldn’t want to see everything go towards streaming from services such as Tidal or Qobuz. I want to be able to continue to buy my music; even if that means buying a download rather than something physical like a CD. At least I know I have it on my own server. Furthermore, the artist really suffers with streaming from a service – they get paid such a small pittance that they can’t make a living on that alone. To survive they are forced to sell physical media/merchandise and of course, tour.
Equipment List:
Hulgich Ella MkII speakers
Pass Labs XA30.8 amplifier
Pass Labs XP20 preamp
Antipodes CX & EX music server and renderer
Antipodes P1 ripper
Oppo BDP-105D, JLTI modified (Level 4.2 + ACB signature)
Inakustik Reference LS-1603 speaker cable
Aurealis XLR interconnects
Wireworld Silver Platinum Starlight USB cable
AudioQuest Vodka Ethernet cable
IsoAcoustic Gaia feet (under speakers)
IsoAcoustic Orea isolation products (under electronic components)
This interview by Tom Waters was originally published in Sound Travels (reprinted with permission of Future Media).
Tom Waters: Do you have a first memory, a first unforgettable musical experience that left an impression?
CL: My first impression was when my oldest brother bought a system comprised of Altec Lansing speakers (I can’t remember which model) and separate Sony components, which he’d setup in the family lounge room. He played lots of music I like, which was 70’s type music. I was gobsmacked at the difference between his system and my parent’s old system. The second instance was when I was at university. I visited my flatmate’s parent’s home somewhere down in Ulladulla. I wasn’t into HiFi then (more the music back then). His dad had a separate music room, and I was gobsmacked (again!) with what I heard. I knew it must have been expensive because his dad seemed a bit nervous that we were in ‘his’ room. And he locked the door afterwards!
TW: And did that start you on the hi-fi journey or did something else start you on the audio equipment quest?
CL: I bought my first system when I was 21. I’d asked my parents for money for my 21st birthday. I had only a little bit of money to spend, so I had to spend wisely. I went around to a lot of shops and eventually bought a pair of Heco Interior Plus 505 floorstanders. They aren’t well known here, it’s a German brand. I also bought a 40 watt Onkyo receiver and an Onkyo CD player. Back then Onkyo was less expensive than today because its reputation wasn’t as established. Then again, it isn’t expensive today either compared to some gear out there! That was my first proper system which I kept for many years. I got side-tracked with work and other stuff, so the system didn’t evolve too much.
After about 15 years I got into home theatre. So I ditched my Onkyo CD player and bought this multi-channel Marantz player, which was a backwards step (for stereo) but I didn’t really realize it at the time. I had Paradigm Studio 60 front speakers then because one of my old Heco speakers stopped working. I also had Paradigm Studio 20’s for rears and a Paradigm centre speaker. I played music through the system too, which wasn’t really very good because it was geared more for home theatre. I knew there was something wrong with the sound, but I didn’t fuss about it too much.
Then in 2012 I noticed this ad for a HiFi show in Sydney. I went there and was totally blown away at how much better these systems sounded than mine! It was a bit overwhelming actually, to tell you the truth. I was surprized by the quality of sound, the many different brands...and the prices! As a result, I bought a new three-channel valve integrated amp by Consonance. That alone made such a difference in my system that I bought a new pair of floorstanding speakers by Osborn and a Consonance integrated valve amp, primarily for music not home theatre. The three-channel amp was then relegated to home theatre channels. Although the sound was great, the bass was a bit soft and the valves made my room too hot in the summer. So I bought a separate Modwright amp which I ran in summer and the Consonance in winter! The Modwright amp exposed me to better bass, which I certainly liked. Along the way I also bought a First Watt J2 which got me intrigued in Pass Labs and Nelson Pass designs. I read reviews on his amps and people said they had a bit of a valve sound, so I upgraded to the Pass Labs separates I have today.
I then heard the Hulgich Ella speakers at a Sydney Audio Club meeting [great club he says but the President is a bugger! Hah!]. I loved them and bought a pair. Still happy…!
TW: Where do you think your system is going, or has it arrived?
CL: At the moment I’m very happy. The last upgrade was the Antipodes music server gear – that lifted my system hugely yet again. The effect of a good digital front-end is quite amazing. I find that I tend to now play complete albums rather than flick from track to track. I think it’s because I don’t experience so much brightness with the Antipodes, so I’m encouraged to keep listening to the album. It’s more analogue sounding; it leans a bit to the warm side which I much prefer. But unfortunately, my system will likely never “arrive”! In this hobby it’s easy to hear something different and confuse it for something better. I’m getting much better at differentiating now!
TW: What’s your favourite piece of equipment at the moment, something that you wouldn’t sell?
CL: I wouldn’t sell my Pass Labs XA30.8 amplifier and XP20 preamp. Going from the valve gear to the Pass Labs gear was a revelation in terms of background silence! Every little bit matters, reducing noise incrementally makes a huge difference.
TW: What would be your second most favourite piece of equipment..?
CL: Definitely the Hulgich Ella speakers, I love the speakers. They allow that perfect balance that I’ve been looking for.
TW: What do you see as your next hi-fi purchase or upgrade?
CL: Likely cables, or maybe a DAC. I’ve spent a fair bit of money lately on the Antipodes so I’m trying to resist spending more for a while. I’ve spent a bit on power cables lately – only $600 for Shunyata NR cords. [CL then laughs saying $600 is virtually nothing in the HiFi world!] I’m waiting for them, they are on order. I recently replaced the basic ethernet cable that came with the Antipodes components with an AudioQuest Vodka ethernet cable and that made a noticeable improvement. Some people try to deny these things make a difference – they only have to try them with unbiased ears to be convinced!
TW: What’s the most memorable pair of speakers (or system as a whole) you’ve ever heard?
CL: I heard these omnidirectional speakers at a recent show in Melbourne; I think they were the German Physiks Borderland MKIV speakers. They were in a small room and I thought … these can’t sound good. The source was an original tape of an early Miles Davis album. And the sound was phenomenal. Another memorable instance was at the Lifestyle Store in Sydney – they were powering the new PMC fenestria speakers with McIntosh gear.
TW: Is there any component you’ve owned and sold that you now regret selling?
CL: I only regret selling the First Watt J2. I had an emotional attachment to it because of the way it sounded. I kept it for a while but I never used it, so I thought it should go. I think if you’re not using something, it’s best to just sell it. It just depreciates more the longer it sits around.
TW: Do you use the same music for comparing components as you do for listening pleasure?
CL: Yes, except for maybe the heavy metal. Metal is great for hearing the impact and power a component is capable of producing, but I don’t listen to it much for pleasure.
TW: What genre of music do you listen to mostly and who are some of your favourite artists?
CL: I think my favourite genre is still rock music - I like artists like R.E.M. and Pearl Jam, I even have a little Metallica but I don’t listen to it much. I still listen to a lot of 70’s music. Lately I’ve listening to more folk music, artists like Angus and Julia Stone. And more jazz, artists like Donald Byrd from back in the 50’s and 60’s. I’ve always listened to a bit of blues but lately I’ve been appreciating John Lee Hooker – there’s something about his voice and rhythmic pounding repetition. I think as your system gets better you’re then open to more varied types of music – it allows you to hear into the music better. You get a better appreciation of the music, and you can more easily hear the recording quality too.
TW: What would be your ‘desert island’ music albums if you could only choose, say, three works?
CL: It’d be hard to pick three specific albums. I would definitely pick three genres. One would be rock. For jazz, I’d probably pick a Donald Byrd album, maybe Ethiopian Nights, and for folk I’d probably pick an Angus and Julia Stone album.
TW: How would you describe the sound you’re getting from your current system?
CL: Well balanced, slightly on the warm side, enjoyable, non-fatiguing. But still there is a good level of detail, without being “crisp” or hard sounding (that can irritate me a bit). I find my system to be relaxing. I’m really happy with my system at the moment. With all the money I’ve spent, I certainly better be happy with it!
TW: In what way does music affect your life, your emotions and the way you feel?
CL: I find music is quite relaxing. After a stressful day at work, I’ll often play music. Often jazz or folk… something softer than rock so I can relax. Sometimes I’ll take a break from music for a couple of weeks, like when I travel. I have portable music then, but it’s not good fidelity music. I find I really miss that. I then look forward to getting home. And as I get older, I find I’m more interested in the background stories of the music and the musicians. I think that’s why I like John Lee Hooker – his music is often like a story.
TW: Where do you see the high-end audio industry going in the future?
CL: It’s not disappearing, it’s still here. I think it’ll survive – there will likely be more rationalizing of brands. People that can afford the expensive audio equipment will still buy the high-end equipment, they might not necessarily be interested in the sound quality – some buy it because they believe it’s good. The older generations like us were exposed to our parent’s system at home – back then today’s portable technology didn’t exist. So, many of us were exposed to HiFi by default. That isn’t so prevalent today. But hopefully, the younger generations that are into ear buds and headphones (and headphones across all price ranges are a huge market right now) will eventually buy real HiFi gear like better speakers and amps. Then again, some will probably just buy better headphones..!
Vinyl appears to be re-invigorating the younger people, even though the manufacturing quality of much of it is poor. But turntables lead to larger less portable gear which in turn may lead to phono stages, power amplification, etc.
TW: Where would you like the audio industry to go or to evolve to?
CL: I think the trickle down from the uber expensive gear to the more affordable gear is already largely happening. Development costs of new components can be huge, so I can’t fault the designers and manufacturers with their trickle down efforts – I think they’re doing a great job there.
I think that digital has advanced to such a degree now, and so quickly, that many people are in denial that it is so good. Many people still hold-out that vinyl reigns supreme and is untouchable. I don’t think that is true at all – sure it’s different but it isn’t better. There needs to be recognition of that.
Lastly, I still like owning things so I wouldn’t want to see everything go towards streaming from services such as Tidal or Qobuz. I want to be able to continue to buy my music; even if that means buying a download rather than something physical like a CD. At least I know I have it on my own server. Furthermore, the artist really suffers with streaming from a service – they get paid such a small pittance that they can’t make a living on that alone. To survive they are forced to sell physical media/merchandise and of course, tour.
Equipment List:
Hulgich Ella MkII speakers
Pass Labs XA30.8 amplifier
Pass Labs XP20 preamp
Antipodes CX & EX music server and renderer
Antipodes P1 ripper
Oppo BDP-105D, JLTI modified (Level 4.2 + ACB signature)
Inakustik Reference LS-1603 speaker cable
Aurealis XLR interconnects
Wireworld Silver Platinum Starlight USB cable
AudioQuest Vodka Ethernet cable
IsoAcoustic Gaia feet (under speakers)
IsoAcoustic Orea isolation products (under electronic components)